Q. And A. Email interview on positive dog training
Q. You call yourself a “positive” dog trainer. What is the main difference between yourself and all the other dog trainers out there?
A. Positive trainers generally use a method called reward based or cue based training with or without the use of a marker signal. The marker signal that I use is called a clicker, I pair the clicker with a reward and am able to let the dog know the exact behavior that will earn them a reward. Clicker trainers shape behavior first then add the cue that produces that behavior. Traditional or non-reward based dog trainers teach commands but when the dog does not comply they often give a collar correction or add negative reinforcement after non-compliance. A heavy dose of negative reinforcement teaches the dog to avoid the correction by responding to the command. Reward based trainers rely on tools like clickers and gentle leaders instead of choke chains and force. All methods work, I prefer not to use force when training animals due to the side effects on both myself and the dog and have found it is just not necessary to use fear as a motivator.
Q. Do all methods work to produce a well behaved dog?
A. Yes, most methods do work, it really depends on the skill of the trainer how well each dog does with any method. Timing is the key regardless of what method is used. Positive trainers don’t rely on aversives in training mainly because we know that they are not necessary and can actually impede the learning process and the relationship between the dog and the trainer.
Q. Is a “cue” the same thing as a “command”?
A. A cue is like a green light- you hear the cue, you do the behavior. The common example I use is: when you come up to a red light and it turns green, when was the last time you just sat there? Your “cue” to move, that green light is a very strong habit. You don’t need the person behind you to hit your car to get you to move. The green light causes the behavior of you stepping on the gas. A cue is a very ingrained habit that an animal (or human) can’t ignore. They are just as strong as commands if not stronger. A command implies “do this or else”. If you give a command and the dog does not comply then you are usually compelled to make the dog do the command. For sit, if the dog does not sit most folks push on the rear end, if that does not work some pop the collar or the dog so a command often results in an escalation of punishment by less skilled trainers. Cue based training assumes that if the dog does not comply then there is no cue control established, the dog does not understand the verbal cue and it is up to the trainer to figure out how to teach the cue. No punishment or negative needed, just teaching.
Q. You have talked about a dog “offering” a behavior. What exactly does that
look like? I am unfamiliar with the terminology.
A. Using the sit as an example, most folks have seen the dog that comes into the kitchen and sits- looking up expectantly for the cookie? The dog is offering the behavior of sitting in the hopes of earning the reward. You can get a dog to offer any behavior- that is the creative part of this type of training and then put that behavior under stimulus or “cue” control.
Q. So you are saying that you can teach a dog anything that you can get them to offer?
A. Yes! Exactly! If you can think up any safe behavior you can put it on
cue. Putting a behavior on cue is also called establishing stimulus control and is really the key to all training, getting an animal to respond and do a behavior in response to an established cue. A cue can be verbal or it could be a hand signal or even something you are not aware of. Obedience is just a series of specific behaviors that you can teach. You can teach a dog to cue to smoke in your home at night. This is a new type of training that I am doing, teaching dogs to run to their owners and wake them up when the “cue” (smoke) enters the room. This is a really fun and useful behavior and could save your life! I have worked with Andy Halgren who has written a book on the subject. Andy is a dog trainer in Sweden and is here in the states a few months a year. He is the one that suggested I start this type of training and taught me how to do this. You can’t really punish a dog for not responding to smoke- that would be ridiculous, besides when you need the behavior you are usually asleep! Instead, offering the behavior of running to Mom and Dad in response to the smoke cue is taught using all positive reinforcement and shaping the desired response until it becomes a habit.
Q. Do positive trainers ever use punishment or aversive in training?
A. Sometimes-but only after much thought. Often if a dog truly knows a cue and has responded regularly and I know there is no confusion and they choose not to respond then I stop the lesson. That is a punishment to my dogs, they love training and want to continue because it means good things happen. My dogs by the way, like working for toys as much as food- there are literally hundreds of rewards out there for dogs. Food is just one of them. Steve White a police dog handler talked at a seminar about opening the car door when teaching the out or stop biting cue to his dogs- police dogs love to go for rides. He would give the command “out”, the dogs would leave the bad guy and get to hop in the car. The opportunity to earn reinforcement(hopping in the car)makes the behavior of “letting go” more reliable. That is how this type of training works-it is creative and fun for the dog and handler.
Q. You told me in your class that I may not want to mix my methods-use a little of what I did with previous dogs and the clicker and treats? One example is when I bumped into Dudley my poodle, with my knee to teach him to learn to stay out of my way while heeling? Is this just your opinion or the way all positive clicker trainers train dogs? What would I do instead?
A. Trainers that use operant conditioning(another name for clicker training) don’t rely on aversives to get behavior. Even a small bump to some dogs is a negative and it can cause other problems- the dog may avoid your leg for a time or form a negative association with you. Any time you rely on aversives you can affect the relationship in a negative way and at the least it stops the dog offering behavior for a time. It is not the best way in my experience to teach heeling or staying close. Most positive trainers feel this way about the use of aversives. Instead, a question I often ask is “what do you want Dudley to start doing”? Positive reinforcement based trainers think in these terms, starting one behavior may well stop another. I would think watching YOU may be a good place to start. If he is watching then he won’t really need a bump, right? It is up to the trainer not to raise their criteria too
quickly- if you teach Dudley to watch at home and then expect him to watch, say – at the beach, that may be too difficult for a young dog. Training takes time and when you take behaviors on the road(out in public) you do need to go back and get the behavior in the new location around distractions- we call this proofing and often takes going back to kindergarden.
Q. You use a lot of terminology- is there a good book on this type of
training that you recommend?
A. Yes! All the rules of reinforcement training are in a book titled “Don’t Shoot The Dog” by Karen Pryor, Karen has many useful videos and books on her website: www.clickertraining.com
Q. I have noticed that the our local humane society website only lists one trainer and his website for training. How come others are not on their website? Do they approve of your methods- is not positive training a humane way to train?
Q. Good question. I can’t speak for others but I have never asked them to add me to their website. They know that I am a humane trainer but I heard that they do not recommend me due to the fact that I use food in training. Although I did hear that they are now using food when training puppies at the shelter, that is good news. I would think that they would recommend all
trainers in the area and let folks decide for themselves what trainer they want to work with.
Q. Why does anyone object to the use of food or treats in dog training?
A. Many folks still believe that dogs should work just for praise and not be motivated by food or you will get a dog that only works when the food is present. When you think about it, dogs really don’t want to please their owners- they want to please themselves! Food is a great tool to motivate dogs to do what we ask of them. It is something they like and have to have on a daily basis. Most folks that think dogs should only work for praise would likely quit their jobs if their weekly paycheck turned into a thank-you note! Now, that said there are right ways to use food and wrong ways. If you use food strickly as a lure or bribe then you will soon teach the dog to do behaviors only in the presence of food. Positive trainers, including all marine mammal trainers use food as a true reward, the animal does the behavior, is given the click or marker signal and THEN the food reward. At first there is a lot of luring but my job is to teach folks how to use food properly to reward and maintain behavior, not bribe it.
Q. Are there any other tools you use in training besides the clicker and
treats?
A. I often use gentle leaders, a head collar that looks like a halter on a horse. It really helps with dogs that pull on the leash. Many folks have trouble maintaining the behavior of dogs walking without pulling, the gentle leader prevents the pulling. It is a tool that takes some dogs time to get used to, some try and get it off their head and if they succeed then they try every time. I take a good week of getting the dog used to the gentle leader before expecting them to walk with it on. I also use the Easy walk harness with the clip in the front both products are made by Premier Pet Products. I teach folks the difference between training and management or how to manage what you can’t control. If you can’t control your dog off lead then leave the leash on until you have trained to the level that you need- that kind of advice. The general dog training book I most often recommend is called “The Culture Clash” by Jean Donaldson. It is well written and a wealth of information on all aspects of dog ownership.
Q. Is there anything else that you want folks to know and understand about your training or dog training in general?
A. Dog training should be fun, for the dog and the human! Anytime anyone learns something new it can be stressful, that is part of the learning process, for the dog and the person teaching the dog! That will soon pass and when the communication begins between dog and trainer it is truly amazing what occurs. It is only by not punishing or using any type of negative reinforcement that I became an accomplished dog trainer. When you don’t use aversives in training then I think it allows you to learn a different way. This type of training cannot be learned from studying a book- the concepts can be understood but the actual training itself is a mechanical skill, it takes practice to become a good dog trainer, to learn the timing and the rules of reinforcement but it is well worth the effort both for the dog and the trainer. I have a blast training dogs and people!
Liz Harward is a reward based trainer that uses the clicker, she live with her family in Ojai, CA and breeds, trains and shows her Labrador Retrievers under the “Matilija” prefix. Liz can be reached by email at liz.randy.harward@gmail.com This interview was conducted on via e-mail by one of Liz’s students in 2002. Information on clicker training is available at Karen Pryor’s website, www.clickertraining.com